RailGate Reverberating.....Mr. Mason Cometh....

.....Again.

Most importantly, Mr. Mason has asked the key person (presumably) responsible what happened to the RailGate Emails, and he has gotten no response from.....

"....Ben Stewart, minister responsible for Citizens' Services, which oversees the government department managing information technology. (An aide said the minister just didn't want to discuss the issue.)..."

Nor will anyone else involved.

Discuss the issue, I mean:

"....For the record, here are those who refused to discuss the matter or even respond to interview requests:...

{snippety-doo-dah}

....Rosemarie Hayes, the woman in charge of the e-mail service for government and the author of the affidavit that blew the lid off the story about the May records' destruction. (She has not responded to numerous messages left on her phone.)

Sue Goldsmith, Ms. Hayes's predecessor, who understands how the electronic storage system works as well as anyone and whose name surfaced in the Hayes affidavit.

Lee Johnson, an official at EDS Advanced Solutions, the company contracted by government to destroy the records requested by the defence. He was dealing with Ms. Hayes regarding the order to destroy the government information that the defence was seeking in the corruption trial.

It would appear people have either gone into hiding voluntarily or been ordered there by the Premier's office, which controls all messaging during times of crisis. Either way, the government's handling of this matter is disgraceful and shows nothing but contempt for the related concerns of B.C. citizens....."

So, never mind the already long-gone-and-forgotten Wally Oppal, because this is one mother of a giant Stonewall that even the way-done-gone-longer John Mitchell would be proud of.

****

Hey!

I wonder.....

Is is it even remotely possible that Mike de Jong's partner's nickname is Martha by any chance?

Naw.....

Not possible.

Because, unlike this obfuscatory madness, a coincidence of that magnitude would be just plain crazy.

Right?





_____
And for those keeping score and/or making side bets at home, I was off on the arrival of this particular Mason missive by 2 hr 27 minutes on the highside.
Oh, and just to take things one step Mary Prankster Bus...If Mr. Mason knows that Ms. Goldsmith's name was in the Hayes affidavit, what else does he know that he hasn't told us yet?


.

Who, Precisely, Ordered The Destruction Of The RailGate Tapes?

ThereAreFiveOf'Em
BigWVille


Who, indeed.

Perhaps some enterprising proMedia reporter would like to call up Rosemarie Hayes' boss and ask him.

****

You all remember Ms. Hayes don't you?

If not, here's a reminder......She's the director of the provincial government's 'Messaging and Collaboration Services'.

Still doesn't ring a bell?

Well how about this....She's also the very fine public servant who told the outsourced InfoTech storage company, EDS, to destroy those tapes with all the RailGate E-mails on them.

****

So.....

Who, precisely ordered Ms. Hayes to send that order to EDS, in May of 2009, in the middle of a hotly contested election campaign in which the proMedia was obsessed with how much fuel Carole James' float plane used and which of Gordon Campbell's relatives were travelling on a campaign bus that he wasn't even on because he was scared the public might find him on it?

Well.....

Presumably, again, Ms. Hayes' boss might have an inkling of that who would be.

So, who is that, exactly?

Ms. Hayes' boss, mean?

Well, that would be the Minister responsible for 'Messaging and Collaboration Services'.

Which is a very fine fellow named Ben Stewart.

And what Ministry is it that Mr. Stewart is running, exactly?

Why, that would be the Ministry of Citizens’ Services and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism and .........Wait for it............

.....The Public Affairs Bureau....

Imagine that!


_______
Oh, and as for the 'It just costs too much to save all those ol' bits and bytes' defense.... Well, Miro Cernetig pretty much destroys that one in his VSun piece today.....Unless, of course, $129 is just too rich for a Ministry to spend that has 220+ full time PAB staffers doing, well.......What, precisely, for the people of British Columbia?
To put all those PAB staffers, and the relative cost of their non-concrete usefulness into perspective, don't forget that the Province of British Columbia currently has just 10 full time Park Rangers.... Yes, just 10!......And no, Mr Good, I'm not making that up either.
Oh, and speaking of the good Mr. Good....I could have sworn that he had his own little Creme de la Creme moment this morning when he berated Frances Bula over the ridiculous notion of the possibility of homeless shelters in....Gasp!..... Vancouver's 'upper middle class neighbourhoods'.....


.

Who Ordered The RailGate Tape Destruction?.....Why Not Ask The Minister Responsible?

HowManyW'sYouGotPundits?
FiveVille


The Globe had a decent LiveChat with old reliable, Mark Hume, on all matters RailGate over the lunch hour today.*

And there is some good stuff worth having a look at there, both in terms of the questions and the answers.

One call and response that caught my eye was the following:

12:30

[Comment From PaulG] has anyone talked to the woman at the center of this scandal - Ms. hayes?

12:31

Mark Hume: Rosemarie Hayes, the director of the government's messaging services, has not talked to anyone in the media. She did talk at some length to a government lawyer, who has filed two affidavits from her. Those sworn statements, which we heard in court are contradictory, are sealed, so we don't know what she's said.

Which is all fine and good, as far as it goes.

Not to mention clear.

But it is nothing new.

So, again......

Why doesn't some enterprising editor send a reporter to go and ask Ms. Hayes' ultimate boss, the minister responsible for 'messaging services', who, precisely, ordered the destruction of the Emails in May of 2009?

And if the minister responsible is not immediately available, perhaps one of the 223 fine folks in the Public Affairs Bureau without too much to do (ie. the ones that keep trolling 'round here all day long) could go and find him.

Why?

Because the minister responsible for 'messaging' is their boss too.

And his name is Mr. Ben Stewart.

OK?


_______
Why wasn't I in there mixin' it up myself, you may be asking?.....Darned thing called work....But I am thinking that we, the RailGate Obsessives Club, could set up our own LiveChat.....After all, we have the technology, and we pulled off a similar thing somewhat successfully on Election Night.....Details to follow.


.

Late Night With RailGate....Did She Or Didn't She?

AffidavitsGoneWild
ClearAsMudVille

The latest, from the Globe's Mark Hume, suggests that the Director of Gordon Campbell's Ministry of Information Retrieval.....errrrr.... 'Messaging And Collaboration Services', Ms. Rosmarie Hayes, may have actually tried to stop the contracted-out IT shop from destroying the RailGate Tapes after she first directed the very same company to destroy them.

Or some such crazy, mixed-up thing:

"....In a story Thursday , the Globe reported the affidavit filed by Ms. Hayes states her department in May ordered EDS to expunge the tapes created prior to 2004, then later requested the material not be disposed of. Because all the affidavits filed with court Thursday were sealed, it remains unclear exactly what directives were given, when and by whom....."


What also remains unclear as mud is whether the files were, indeed, really and truly, actually destroyed according to a report on what Gordon Campbell's man in the RailGate courtroom, Mr. George Copley, had to say Thursday according to a report by the CP's Steve Mertl:

"....Copley also told (RailGate Judge Elizabeth) Bennett on Thursday that some of the emails involving three of the 33 people covered by the defence request may still exist after all...."


Sheesh-O-Rama-Llama-Ding-Dong!


_____
Meanwhile Harvey Oberfeld, who is going to be on CFUN tomorrow talkin' RailGate, has just let slip that he thinks that, in the end, the government of Gordon Campbell, just might get precisely what it has always wanted.......And I think I can guess what that might be......Aaaaargh!

.

RailGate Catch And Release...This Ain't No Fishing Expedition.

AllTheTapesThatFit
CampbellVille


Just a couple of quick thoughts while we wait for RailGate judge, Mdme Justice Bennett, to decide on the fate of Paddy The K's documents as well as her own future.

****

If those RailGate Tapes that were ordered destroyed by Ms. Rosemarie Hayes in May of this year were originally placed on hold as the tale of two affidavits would suggest, doesn't that beg the following two questions......

Who ordered the original holding?

And why?


______
There just might be a hint of the who in Mr. Mason's latest missive wherein he mentions that he tried to get ahold of Ms. Hayes' predecessor in the neoOrwellian-named Ministry of Messaging*, Ms. Sue Griffiths, to no avail.
And thanks tons to a very perceptive Anon-O-Mouse in the comments for the prod-along on this one.
*At least it's not called the 'Ministry of Information Retrieval'......yet.

.

The RailGate Tapes - What's In A Name?

Pictured above is Rosemary Woods doing her infamous stretch to demonstrate how she accidentally erased at least part of the missing 18 minutes of the Watergate Tapes.

It turns out that Ms. Woods was no shrinking violet. In addition, she was also known, with apologies to Pete Best, as 'The Fifth Nixon':

(W)hen Nixon began his awkward tenure as Eisenhower's begrudged, and begrudging, vice president, Woods became his de facto chief of staff. She knew who was friendly and who wasn't and scheduled or stonewalled Nixon's appointments accordingly. More than "office wife," she combined solid political judgment with an ability to read the boss's moods and deliver news he didn't wish to hear. Rose Mary Woods ran the shop.

She was also a sore loser. On an eastbound train during Nixon's 1960 presidential run, she poured a drink over the head of a reporter whose articles she didn't fancy. After the election, when the triumphant John Kennedy met with Nixon at Key Biscayne, Fla., her colleagues had to peel her back from another reporter whose galling presence baited her temper.

Woods was at the dinner table the night Nixon staged a mock debate with his family about the pros and cons of running one more time, as if the issue were in doubt. A trusted confidante to Mrs. Nixon, "Aunt Rose" to Tricia and Julie, Woods was affectionately called "the fifth Nixon."...

So.

What does all this have to do with the erasure of the RailGate tapes here and now in British Columbia?

Well, at least according to Gary Mason in today's Globe, the irony of the first name of the person involved, who by all accounts is a very fine member British Columbia's public service and was very likely just doing their job, is quite astonishing:

Tapes containing the e-mail correspondence of B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell and members of his cabinet that lawyers in a government corruption trial have insisted are critical to the defence of their clients were ordered destroyed in early May, The Globe and Mail has learned.

According to several sources, the person responsible for managing the government e-mail delivery service has filed an affidavit in court that contains the potentially politically explosive information.

In her affidavit, Rosemarie Hayes, director of Messaging and Collaboration Services, Workplace Technology Services (WTS), states that at the beginning of May of this year, her department requested that backup tapes of government e-mails created prior to May of 2004 be expunged from the system. The e-mails are the subject of a legal proceeding and as such should not have been deleted, according to the government's own guidelines.

Now.

Regardless, issues of given names that actually mean little, questions of real import need to be asked regarding this matter....

First - who ordered the erasure?

And second - why would they do it this May 0f 2009 when the lawyers for the defendents had already requested the Emails that were on the tapes that were erased?

Seems a big chance to take, don't you think?

Unless, of course, those E-mails were as scary for a certain someone as, say, 18 minutes of audio tape were to a certain someone else so long ago......


______
Of course, it's also possible that someone with authority in government to do so did NOTtell Ms. Hayes NOT to erase the tapes, which, given the circumstances and the timing (don't forget there was an election going on as well), would, in our books at least, be just as bad.
Oh, and for the record, koot had this one before me, in a comment over at Mary's place.

.

What Fresh Hell Is This?

Enshittification
OverdriveVille


Happy New Year.

Which means that it is now the year that the worsening of all things online will continue at warped speed:

Meta is betting that characters generated by artificial intelligence will fill its social media platforms in the next few years as it looks to the fast-developing technology to drive engagement with its 3bn users.

“We expect these AIs to actually, over time, exist on our platforms, kind of in the same way that accounts do,” said Connor Hayes, vice-president of product for generative AI at Meta. 

“They’ll have bios and profile pictures and be able to generate and share content powered by AI on the platform . . . that’s where we see all of this going,” he added.

Hayes said a “priority” for Meta over the next two years was to make its apps “more entertaining and engaging”, which included considering how to make the interaction with AI more social...

Now.

I know that Norm Farrell, NVG, DS, and Dr. Beer 'N Hockey are on the level because I've actually met them, in person, in real life.

And I think I met GarFish in a past life.

And I've known Danneau, and Graham, and eaf, and EE, and TB, and Scotty on Denman, and Lew E, and Chuckstraight, and JP, and Keith, and Grant G, and just about all the rest of you who have been stopping by here occasionally since the days when AI grifterians like Sam Altman were still in short pants and/or were about to quit Stanford. Thus, I'm pretty sure you all are real as well.

But what do we do when a new commenter shows up now? 

Do we have them to send us imprints of their retinas and, maybe, cheek swabs just to be sure they're something more than neural-networked gobs of goo in the machine?


_____
Image at the top of the post?...Header originator Dorothy Parker working her typewriter far from the madding Algonquin Roundtable crowd at her farmhouse in Bucks County PA...The guy sitting by the window is not Paul Newman. Instead, it's her then husband Alan Campbell... The photo was taken in 1937, the year the two of them worked with collaborator Robert Carson to write the screenplay to 'A Star Is Born'.

Subheader?...This!...Courtesy the brilliant Cory Doctorow.


.

Why Is The Chairman Of The Board Of BC Ferries Hiding?

Accountability?
WeDon'tNeedNoStinkingAccountability!Ville


Couldn't help but notice this little tidbit in Rob Shaw's VTC story on Friday about the latest round of really super-duper (and board approved) executive compensation packages at BC Ferries:

"...Board chairman Donald Hayes was not available for comment..."

And today?

Well...

Mr. Shaw is telling us, via his Twittmachine feed, that the good Mr. Hayes is refusing to give interviews on the matter.


_____
We note, with interest, that Mr. Geoff Plant is also a member of the unelected and, apparently (based on recent events), unaccountable BC Ferries Board...Perhaps Mr. Plant would like to rectify that situation (the accountability one at least) by offering us a blog post to explain things to us in, say, the manner in which he also explained the six million dollar payout to Mess'rs Basi and Virk awhile back....


.

Willie Mays A's?

The initial premise of the baseball movie 'Major League' is that the fictional owner of the then Cleveland Indians, Rachel Phelps, wants to field a team so bad that attendance will fall below a magic threshold that will allow her to move the team to Miami.

Thus, the team brings in a broken down catcher from the Mexican league, a fireballer that (literally) can't see the plate, and a speedster named Willie Mays Hayes who can't hit.

Of course, in the end, everybody, including the owner and the long suffering fans, wins.

That does not look it will be the case for the real life fans of the current version of the Oakland Athletics 

****

One-And-A-Half-Fans

PerUsherVille

The current version of the real life Oakland Athletics are still being run by Dr. Moneyball, Billy Beane.

Which means that while they routinely sell off high-priced stars to stock the shelves with cheaper  talent with quality 'metrics', the A's on-field product is almost always competitive.

What's going on in the A's front office, driven by team president Dave Kaval and owner John Fisher, however, is a completely different story:

...The attendance (for a recent home game with the Baltimore Orioles) was just 3,748, the lowest crowd count at the alternately dreary and cheery Coliseum since 1980. It's also the smallest crowd at a major league game minus pandemic restrictions since an announced 5,297 fans attended an August 2019 Miami Marlins game.

The reasons why are both well-worn and also infuriating...

{snip}

...Since the Raiders left and the pandemic landed, the A's have held all the cards and their actions suggest as much.

(The fan-friendly) A's Access (ticket program) was discontinued. Parking was jacked up to $30, even as COVID-19 restrictions left mass-transit options emaciated. Single-game tickets were raised – $25 for a third-deck seat in a decrepit football stadium, anyone? – and in the grimmest turn yet, many season-ticket packages were significantly raised before this season.

How much? A bleacher seat went from $456 in 2019 to $840 in 2022, according to the San Jose Mercury News, with more expensive options also doubling or nearly doubling.

Meanwhile, as the A's continued jumping through ever-growing hoops for their desired waterfront home at Howard Terminal, Kaval and MLB commissioner Rob Manfred teamed up on a not-so-subtle bit of dark messaging: Your current home sucks...

What are Mr. Kaval and his commissioner lackey Mr. Manfred up to here?

Well, if you pay any attention to professional sports whatsoever, it's essentially a most egregious version of a story you've likely heard before - essentially team owner Fisher is holding A's fans hostage while he attempts to force the city of Oakland into coughing up a half a billion dollars for a new ballpark that will make him and real estate developers billions.

And if that doesn't work, the Mess'rs Kaval and Fisher are threatening to move the baseball team, like the football team before it, to the Nevada desert.

****

TheViewFromTheThird

DeckVille

When we lived in the Bay Area, back in the time of La Russa, it was a great time to be an Oakland A's fan.

We could walk to the North Berkeley Station, take the train down to the ballpark, and stroll right into the outfield bleachers. One afternoon I even went alone, with a then four month old Tiny E. in the backpack, so that we could wander around the concourse above the bleachers the entire game. I ate more than my share of hotdogs that day.

It was heaven out there in the bleachers. And it was cheap. And then Al Davis wrecked everything with his stupid mountain of seats and skyboxes that destroyed the up close and personal view of the field in front of you* and the panoramic view of the East Bay hills behind you.

Since then we've been back more than once - including the the spring day we went to see Vlady Senior after he abandoned Les Expos and went on to ply his trade for the pre-Troutian California Angels. At that time the former Tiny E. was getting bigger and the Oakland Coliseum was much fuller than it is now. 

________

One time we were sitting near a bleacher denizen who bellowed... 'Hey, Rickey. They traded the wrong Henderson!'....The guy was referring to recently dispatched bleacher favourite Dave Henderson....Rickey just went into his crouch in left, put his right hand on his rear end out of view of all the other players on the field and gave the guy the finger...The fans all around us went bonkers...

Hey, just so you know...All is not lost with today's game because it turns out that sometimes there is crying in baseball...

And, on that note....Apparently there is a TV version of 'A League Of Their Own' coming...

.

Did An Entire Pack Of Rabid Dogs Eat All The RailGate Email Homework?

IfThisWasn'tSoImportant
ItWouldBeLaughableVille

OK.

So here's what we know so far about what happened at today's Railgate Court hearing.....

First off, the judge is going, going, gone.....(almost).

Secondly, apparently Patrick Kinsella's attorney is a slow reader and thus needs more time to read a whole bunch of new documents.

And third, there was some kind of discussion about all those missing and/or destroyed and/or recovered and/or kinda/sorta lost government Emails that the defense asked for more than TWO YEARS AGO, and which The Globe and Mail reported in July were apparently ordered destroyed by one of the bosses of the governments' 'Citizen Services' division in May of this year.

Yes.

May of THIS YEAR, in the MIDDLE of a provincial election campaign.

****

So, what, exactly, did Gordon Campbell's man in the Railgate courtroom, Mr. George Copley, tell the soon-to-be-departing Judge about what happened to all those Emails, which she has already deemed to be potentially relevant to the guilt or innocence of the accused, just as the first British Columbians got set to take their first 'free' trips on the Canada Line?

Well, we're not sure, exactly, but the following is Ian Mulgrew's interpretation in the VSun:

".....The defence team is frustrated in its attempts to obtain information it claims is vital to a fair trial, especially e-mails from current and former MLAs, including Premier Gordon Campbell.

The court heard that there is a complicated process of classifying and retaining government documents including emails, technical problems recovering some digital data and continuing debate about privacy and privilege concerns.

It still may be weeks before anyone knows what emails exist, which might have been destroyed, which might be relevant and which might ultimately be produced. Discussions over those issues will continue....."

Look

This is absolutely ridiculous.

The following is a single question for Mr. Copley, the Minister responsible, Mr. Stewart, and/or the woman who runs the office that allegedly ordered the Emails destroyed, Ms. Hayes:

"Do the E-mails exist?"

Now, there are only two possible answers to this question, and both are very simple and uncomplicated.

Yes....

Or

No.....

OK?

.

This Day In Snookland...Real Lackeys Don't Jump...

....Ship.

____

Update: Had the messenger and the jumper backwards in original version...Thanks to persey for the heads-up on my dundatorialness.

____

A small CP wire-type item from late last week that generated little more than the tiniest of ripples on the otherwise placid Lotuslandian proMedia waters:

VICTORIA - The chairman of BC Ferries board of directors has announced the resignation of a board member.

Donald P. Hayes gave no reason for Guy D. Johnson's resignation, which took effect on Friday...


Now.

I have no idea if the good Mr. Johnson jumped ship for all the right reasons given the recent decisions of the BC Ferries board.

But, in the eyes of the ever manipulative media mavens of Snooklandia, I'm pretty sure that, regardless the true reasons, the timing of Mr. Johnson's resignation alone was enough to get his name scratched out of any and all rolodexes marked 'lackey' with permanent marker.

OK?


_____
And, if you have a moment or three to spare/absolutely nothing better to do, check out the comments attached to the wire fluff on the CTV site linked-to above, or those attached to, essentially the same bit o' fluff posted on the VSun site...The overwhelming cynicism mixed with ignorance seemed to have resulted in a total inability of most commenters to even begin to contemplate what actually might have gone down (i.e. the possibility, given the timing, that the good Mr. Johnson may have resigned for all the right reasons) is simply astounding...Then again, if the proMedia just floats out press release codswallop/announcements without digging?...Well...What should we expect?....Of course, such low expectations coupled with high ignorance are precisely what those manipulative media mavens mentioned above count on...Right?


.

Advent Jukebox, Day 16...Blue Christmas.

Blue Christmas, written by Billy Hayes and Jay Johnston, was first recorded by Doye O'Dell in 1948, nine years before the King did it.

We first recorded it, with video and everything, in the arrivals area of YVR in 2011.*

Below is the advent jukebox version...

.

_____
Thanks to Danneau for bringing the video version back to the top of mind in the comments earlier in the jukebox...'Twas a very happy moment in holiday time.

.

RailGate Rewind....Who Ordered The Destruction Of The Email Tapes?

TheCruxOfTheMatter
FiveW'sVille


Don't know for sure.....

But Bill Tieleman, speaking on the (notso) Giant'98, just suggested that the answer may be buried deep within Rosemarie (Don't Call Her Woods) Hayes' second affidavit that was offered up by Gordon Campbell's man in the RailGate courtroom, George Copley, last week.

But here's the thing....

That affidavit has NOT been made public.

So....

Has anybody else seen it whose last name is not Mason?

Hmmmm.....

Now that I think of it, does this mean that we will be receiving another blockbuster in tomorrow's Globe?

_____
Mr. T. has pretty much confirmed our Anon-O-Mouse's 'List' posted downthread, and notes that the Emails of Mr. Campbell's deemed likely relevant by the Judge include those dealing with both BC Rail AND Pilothouse....ha!.....(and how the heck did Bill update that post while he was simultaneously jousting with Norman Spector on the Goodship Watercarrier, who was strangely silent this morning?)....

.

Saturday Night's Alright For Uke (Cover) Fighting!

There'sNoUke

LikeCoverUkeVille


And tonight, as the Canuckleheads are collapsing like the Maginot Line, we're taking the fight to our good friend, The Reverand Paperboy, who moved things onto a whole new plane with his Uke movie theme cover challenge.

With that, here's our counterattack....

_____________

First, as usual, is The Original....

Next, the cover, courtesy the magnificent Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain....

____
And if you want to watch a real original, here's Isaac Hayes live....
And, once again, we thank Los Angelino photog and knitting needle wielder extraordinare Ellen Bloom, for allowing us to use the uke peg head image at the top of the post.

.

History Becomes Him

TheScreenDoorSlams
We'reAllWaitingVille

Who could have known that the greasy kid with a guitar and songs about clandestine meetings under the boardwalks and cars he never drove would come to embody all that remains of American exceptionalism.

Ridiculous hypberbole, you say?

Perhaps.

But Bruce Springsteen never let me down.

And, now, in the 'Seeger Sessions', he shows he's learned to do sing-a-longs too.

The torch is passing, and the moment is so fine that I'm even willing to wade through the commercials and crap to see some of it here.

Somewhere, I think, Woody, and maybe even Lee Hayes too, are both smilin'.

.

PinkoCon Follies, Vol II

CalamineIsThyName
GoLeftYoungConservativeVille


In our last post we wondered if any of the far rightsiders were getting upset about the blatant self-pinkoficication of the CPC.

Well, while we haven't yet found them screaming for Mr. Harper to wipe the calamine lotion from around his eyes, it does appear that the folks over at the home of the Buckshot Bloviators are at least a little bit concerned for one who walks among them that might actually believe in all of that 'do unto others' type stuff:

Socially conservative voters in the B.C. riding of Port Moody-Coquitlam-Port Coquitlam are facing an interesting dilemma in the current election. The question: Should they vote for the Conservative party when they can’t stomach the Conservative candidate?

The question arises because incumbent Conservative MP James Moore, an otherwise stellar parliamentarian, notoriously voted in favour of same-sex marriage in the House, and has also subsequently expressed pro-choice-type views. Both these stances came as unpleasant surprises to Moore’s many so-con supporters, who had earlier been led to believe that Moore was just as so-con as his Reform predecessor in the riding, Sharon Hayes.


Heckfire, Mr. Moore must be one of those, ummmmm, what did they used to be called, pre-PM*?

Oh, yeah - now I remember.

Progressive conservatives.

_____
*Peter MacKay

.