Thursday, December 01, 2016

Can John Horgan And The Dippers Win By Pulling A Bernie Sanders (In Fundraising)?


Last weekend Mr. Mason of the Globe wrote a column taking John Horgan to task for having the audacity to actually court big dollar donors.

Which, in my opinion at least, was both dumb and obvious given that the Dippers have to play by the ridiculous BC Liberal Banana Republican Rovian fundraising rules that cannot be changed until someone else forms the government.

Which, bizarrely, Mr. Mason has noted in the past but essentially ignored in the column under consideration.


What surprised me in the ensuing discussion, both here at this little F-Troop list blog (see the comments here) and out in the wider world/louder echo chamber of the Twittmachine, was how many Dipper-friendly folks took the position that Mr. Horgan et al. are not pure enough and, worse, are squandering the opportunity to whip up a grass roots fundraising frenzy that will bring in boatloads of cash that will sweep them to a populist victory.

An example of this desire for fundraising purity can be found in a Twittmachine exchange between Rod Mickeburgh and Kai Nagata that took place a few days ago:


Let's ignore the 'Can the Dippers make like Bernie Sanders politically?' thing for the moment and just ask a more hard-headed question, which is...

"If the BCNDP could be as successful as Bernie Sanders in raising money in small dollops from non-wealthy donors, could they bridge the fundraising gap with the BC Liberals?"

Sound like a reasonable question given Mr. Mason's original thesis and the discussion it whipped up?

Alright fellas (and gals)....Lets go!


I have already explained the huge six million dollar advantage, all of it due to massive corporate support and wealthy donor support/investment, that the BC Liberals gained in 2015 which, given the multitude of secret big money hookups recently, has to be at least as large (if not much larger) for 2016.

Which means that the BC Liberals are very likely at least twelve million dollars ahead as of right now.

So, could the Dippers make that up by going all "pure-as-the-driven-snow-Sandersesque" for the next six months?


How about we do a little bit of new fangled math (i.e. long division) and see what the numbers look like?

During his recent campaign down south Mr. Sanders raised $202 million in small donations from a voter base of 136 million.

In the last election the voter base in British Columbia was 1.8 million which is 1.3 percent the size of that in United States. I will round that number off to 1.5% just to be safe.

All of which means that, even if the Dippers the fantastic job that Bernie Sanders did with small money donors they would raise a total of about three million dollars leaving them nine million behind the BC Liberals. And then, of course, there is all that darker money that is about to be thrown around by the highly 'resourceful' BC Liberal wizards' surrogates and astroturf layers to consider, not to mention the PAB-Botian ad blitzkriegs that are and will be paid for by you and me.

Which is why I stand by my original assertion, now more than ever, that Mr. Mason and those very well meaning and idealistic folks that have that have been bamboozled by the Masonian blather are asking the BC NDP to fight the upcoming election campaign with both hands tied behind their back.


That 'Alright fellas, let's go!' thing given you an earworm?....Well, of course....This.



Chuckstraight said...

Good Stuff RossK

Still boggles my mind why the mainstream media can`t focus on the fact that our Premier receives a stipend that in part could be from Enbridge etc. In other words she is one of their employees?

Bill said...

Outing the slipstream media, following the money and doing the math... well said Ross.

Only the nefarious, the oblivious and the captured still believe and/or pretend this slush funding is above board. Mason simply deflects for column filler and the usual spin. I hope Mr Horgan makes this pay to play funding a key issue. It is interesting that the rest of Canada has seen and acted on just how wrong and unacceptable this is. No surprise that here in Sparkel Pony land our mostly spin and look the other way, the loco pro pundits and at their 'journalist'' best lazily diffuse with both-siderisim.

Hr Horgan and the BCNDP need to get F.O.I. search numbers on all the BC Govt. ads for tv, radio and in print. How much is this useless propaganda carpet bombing costing tax payers? The cost, the justification, the ad agencies used (and their relationship to the government), the measured impact and results and... the e-mails that directed this total waste of tax money (it would be just as newsworthy if a F.O.I. search came back blank).

This tax payer wasted money could have been spent to actually benefit BC citizens rather than the image of our self serving Pirate government. How many government depts. and agencies are using our funds to pump the tires of the BC Liberals. Is this spending a media payback for pro BCLiberal cheerleading ans slant? Like the previous saturation of insulting HST stick man ads this bombardment is an egregious abuse and waste. This 'pre campaign' campaign should be exposed and highlighted as another clear example of how BC citizens are being ill served by those blatantly self serving in only their own self interest.

Anonymous said...

The formatting of the above was much nicer when I pasted it in the window. The way it looks, is Blogger's fault. Just so you all know.


Anonymous said...

Instead, I would assert that this argument shows you've been totally seduced, as I was.
So I would say that the Dogwood/Green have always been happy to make themselves useful tools in Christy Clark's vote splitting bag, & allow Christy to indulge her aspirational side that her socred masters in the BCL won’t allow.
Thus there was this past summer’s stunt of the Green’s private member bill on sexual assault . Clark might not have been able to get the BCL behind such a bill, unless she could sell the BCL on the vote-splitting alliances. Thus that summer spectacle of Ms Clark’s melodramatic confession, that also served to swindle the chattering classes : )
(Noting that the BCL would have nothing to do with the BCND’s fentanyl legislation, with murderous consequences now apparent)
Research Kai Nagata's Twitter & media moves over the last month or so, & see if you don't agree that the BCL is the party ultimately served by them. Kai isn’t sticking to the green agenda by attacking the BCND. Everything that Kai Nagata does serves BCL interests (with a few harmless judicious jaunts in other directions to disguise his obvious ways.
I’d say that basically the Dogwood/Greens have always shown themselves to be as dogmatic, authoritarian & absolute as the BCL socreds. So lots of affinity there. The Dogwood/Greens actions are so aligned with BCL interests against the BCN, that I think they should regarded as a single political force.
I say this, fully expecting screams & protestations from those narcissist types who wear the privileged, self-virtuous Green armour that disguises their extremist ways. Noise rather than objective denial would just prove the point to me
I think you've been falsely lured by the meme-framing of the John Horgan attack as a matter of "purity". Along with being lured into feeder diversions such as trying to defend the issue as a matter of having to play on the same playing field. I was a sucker too, but have since reconsidered after realizing that there was no such meme in play until Kai Nagata comms guy, went to work to put it out there.
The thing that Ron the Obvious made obvious is that the BCND event was open, above-board, well-publicised, & the donors revealed. The money flow was in plain sight. The NDP are not the governing party, either. None of that is true of the BCL secret fund-raisers.
(remember the PR stunt that Clark & Anton pulled this past summer, to mislead that Clark would be participating in Gay Pride? Instead, Clark blew off thousands of voters to attend a very secret fundraiser worth more than whole Pride constituency)
Also, the BCL have been in a hurry to fund-raise because I think the end of the November is the cut-off for "associations" to remain anonymous. Thus the BCL cancelling government, an issue that has just slid by MSM, & have been over-whelmed by a month of BCL-favouring MSM attack ads on John Horgan during this final month where BCL donor associations can remain secret.
So I'm kind of wondering whether "Ron" was forced to write that article in that way. It seemed a little too obvious, as if he were dropping hints.
Remember that Ron Obvious' article was the second such attack article on John Horgan this month of November. The first was the pseudo tragedy-abuse-for-political-gain article that Sunshine "Pro Media" published on the Friday preceding the BCL convention at the beginning of November.
So all this article-writing works like a BCL-favouring MSM-produced fake-news campaign, right?
Isn't this all just a more sophisticated of version of the BCL-denied Adrian Dix fake-news attack strategy that gullible voters lapped up during the last election?
Best wishes (and thanks for this chance to reveal a few festering thoughts out for a good airing & possible shredding. Fire away, anyone :)

Lew said...

Mr. Mason should be imparting his financial genius to his employer. In order that his employer will still have the funds to employ the likes of Mr. Mason during the coming election and beyond.

Anonymous said...

Are some media looking for future job prospects?

e.a.f. said...

Of course Bernie Saunders could raise enough money given the population of the U.S.A. B.C. not so much. People have to get real if they want the NDP to have a fighting chance in the next election and being as pure as the driven snow isn't going to cut it.

The B.C. Lieberals have access to corporate sponsors, very wealth individuals, etc. Christy's pay to play at $10K a crack is something the NDP simply can't compete with. There aren't that many people who are NDP members who have that type of money. It is therefore important that the NDP accept donations from Unions. This business of not accepting Union donations must be a plot by some right wing B.C. Lieberals, etc.

Right wing parties will always have very wealthy supporters who can ante up thousands of dollars a dinner. The NDP, not so much. The NDP trying to put distance between themselves and the labour movement is not the smartest move. It works really well for their opposition, but not for them. To win an election you need money. Money from Unions is just as good as money from corporations and very wealthy individuals. If people want to believe the NDP would be controlled by unions of they accepted money from them, they need to get a grip. Just as a Chamber of Commerce will support a B.C. Lieberal Party, so can a Union support the NDP.

Running an election campaign costs money. If you want to win, you need a lot of money. Advertising is not cheap, especially if you want to place ads in prime time T.V. Lets hope this time the NDP reminds voters, in their ads, of how things have been with Christy Clark and her cabal. Its all well and good to say what you stand for, but voters might want to be given a reminder of how much child poverty this province has, lack of care for seniors, clawing back money from the disabled.

Christy Clark thinks nothing of handing out money or royality tax breaks to her corporate sponsors. The NDP ought not to be ashamed of accepting money from Unions.

Columbrage said...

I didn't think I would have a moment to look, but I've found one. So I would rather have my comments deleted, because I don't think they're working. So please delete them.


Grant G said...

Mr. K.....(your comments in the thread)

That was very well deduced!

and you added in passion, possibly anger, it oozed onto my screen.

Perhaps the word infamous is more suited to in..

The Infamous Ross K

That might stick..

Good Day

Columbrage said...

Also, another reason for deleting this comment, and any others, is that I've changed my posting.

Anonymous said...

P3 in BC new meaning til may 2017 propa propag propaga?

RossK said...

Deletions complete...

No worries.



You're in.

I'm out.

All snark aside, very much enjoyed your talk with Canadian Glen last night.


Crankypants said...

Campaign financing is only one of the problems the NDP faces in the upcoming election. The lack of a viable Conservative Party may be a hurdle that that puts them behind the eight ball before the election begins.

I also think that there is a closer relationship between the Green Party and the BC Liberal Party. I am sure that there was a rumor that one of the Green Party candidates on Vancouver Island had some of his or her advertising paid for by the Liberal Party. In my riding of Coquitlam the Green Party candidate was a name only. He never attended any all candidates meetings, didn't even have his photo on the Green Party's website and according to Elections BC only spent $250 on his campaign. Yet he garnered over 1,000 votes. Was he a Liberal plant or just the product of a poor vetting process by the Greens?

I also think that Mr. Horgan should stay as far away from the Kinder Morgan pipeline as he possibly can. Ultimately the only thing that can stop it is the courts. The idea that the province can withhold the required permits is nothing but a red herring. The Feds will exert whatever pressures they think they need to ensure that the province obliges with their decision. The NDP would be wiser to focus on the many issues that Dermond Travis of Integrity BC has written about over the last many years and social issues that affect everyone's day-to-day struggles to make a comfortable life in this province.

Sometimes the message can overcome a financial deficit if it is delivered clearly and with conviction.

RossK said...

Excellent points CP--

In addition, I think they are going to have to do a turn around on all the bamboozling of the middle class that both the BCL wizardry and the surrogates will focus on (here I agree with Harvey O).


RossK said...

And then there are the kids...

Everybody says how hard that is but there are a lot of votes there (and that's a Green battle too, I agree).

I agree that the vote splitting issue is truly problematic.


Anonymous said...

" The British Columbia and Alberta governments reached an agreement November 5 on B.C.'s contentious five conditions for new pipelines."

Remember that headline ? " News of the deal came as a surprise as negotiations between the Clark and Redford camps had reportedly broken off November 4, the two sides unable to agree on B.C.'s fifth condition: that the province receive its fair share of the economic benefits of new oil projects. "

" Clark, since releasing the conditions last summer, had been adamant that Alberta surrender a greater portion of its royalties from pipeline projects.

Redford, however, steadfastly refused to negotiate on that issue.

Under the new agreement, B.C. will negotiate with private industry, an option always available to the province, instead of Alberta, for greater economic benefits of pipeline projects. Any additional windfall will now come from energy companies."

In other words Christy Clark must now impose a TAX on those oil companies that fund her campaign....... good luck with that Christy..... they may say we already gave to the Liberals.

Guy in Victoria

Anonymous said...


Kai Nagata has not factored in that many NDP voters are struggling to support themselves, adult children and parents on pensions. There is nothing left to give…

Supplying fodder for Clarkites and hangers-on, to use against the NDP is not helpful or productive.

RossK said...


The provGreens know where to go to get their votes.

Was it not the good Mr. Weaver who made the fuss in the first place?


Chuckstraight said...

Mr Mason`s latest: "People in Vancouver need to get out of their idyllic little bubble and see how things are in the rest of the country. Not everyone has lucked into a small fortune as a result of home ownership. Many people across this country live day to day." (Globe)

Idyllic little bubble?


Anonymous said...

SH @ RossK,

Weaver is useful.

@ Kai Nagata:

George Monbiot, December 1/16:

"...As usual, the left and centre (myself included) are beating ourselves up about where we went wrong. There are plenty of answers, but one of them is that we have simply been outspent. Not by a little, but by orders of magnitude. A few billion dollars spent on persuasion buys you all the politics you want. Genuine campaigners, working in their free time, simply cannot match a professional network staffed by thousands of well-paid, unscrupulous people."

Stephen said...

Ron Obvious cannot be bothered to highlight the Liberals donors who are many developers and mining execs as outlined by Bob Mackin. That is where the outrage should be directed!

Anonymous said...

This same message is being pushed by the BC Greens. Kai Nagata is also a BC Green supporter. Yet that party has no problem with Clark's additional stipend paid to her from the Lib Party in BC.
Weaver used to stump for Gordon Campbell, support site C, supports disaster run of river private power but his dream of a refinery in Kitimat is dead.
Personally I can't figure why anyone could support the BC Greens as Weaver is a big jerk.